Death: What awaits us?

August 31, 2012

Another Jack Schaap victim from First Baptist Hammond speaks out - where is David Gibbs?

http://www.facebook.com/groups/210248275769396/

http://www.facebook.com/groups/210248275769396/permalink/220907154703508/
My name is ***** ***** (formerly ***** ***********) . I graduated from HAC in 1997. Up until 2009, my husband *** and I worked for FBC of Hammond. My husband was the ******** and *********** Administrator and I was the Marketing Director for ********* *********, both of us worked directly for Jack Schaap.

I have been silent and have been very selective of who I have shared my story with. I am choosing to speak out today because I have taken every step with grace and propriety to speak to those in leadership at FBC and they have chosen to continue to shun and ignore me despite a phone call and gracious letter. I have not been part of any open groups because I have been afraid of the condemnation and scrutiny that those who lurk and read here can aim at me. I am not bitter, I have forgiven Jack Schaap and there are many people at FBC I dearly love.

 I am deeply wounded and I pray by sharing what I am about to share that those, who like me, have been abused by Jack Schaap or the system of FBC would know that they are not alone and that there is no shame in their story. I am tired of carrying SHAME that does not belong to me to bear. I lost a dear friend because I was outraged that she shared my story because I was filled with fear and shame- I was outraged because those who are victims within the IFB system are consistently shamed, vilified and are made to feel like they are to blame for the abuse. They are never given a voice or an ear. They have not been protected but re-victimized when they have tried to say, “NO” to the abuse.

Over 7 years ago my husband and I had deep struggles in our marriage. We both had been unfaithful to each other and my husband reached out to Jack Schaap for help when I filed for divorce. (My story is not unfamiliar- I shared it openly at the ** *********** a few years ago.) Schaap took a great interest in us, we were his “trophy couple.” ( See the introduction to my book, “ When Money Doesn’t Grow On Trees” from Jack Schaap) Schaap began to regularly counsel us and almost immediately hired me on staff to work with his wife. 

During this time Jack Schaap met with me to help with my marriage. He met with me often and for long periods of times. I had one meeting that lasted over 2 and a half hours. I was alone with him. He called my house and at one point berated and raged at me and then would tell me of his love. During those counseling sessions he told me that “This KJV debate means NOTHING to me compared to what it would do to me if I lost you.” With tears in his eyes He told me of our connection and that he loved me. 

Many times during his “counseling” my marriage he would ask me vile, sexually charged questions, he would make statements of what he would ( sexually) “do to me” if he was my husband and what my husband should “ do to me”. ( Sexually speaking) His constant preoccupation with highly charged sexual innuendo and questions was violating. I cannot speak and share many of those things as they are not appropriate to share. His talk always made me feel dirty and confused. I asked him and even wrote him to turn his topics onto my marriage and not my sex life, to bring my husband into our conversations when there were times when we counseled together.

 At one point when I told him I could no longer attend FBC and work for him he refused my letter of resignation and told me to meet with him. I told him ‘ No” and he said, “NO ONE says NO to Jack Schaap!” I received constant calls from his secretary asking me to meet with him and every time I gave the phone to my husband so he could tell Jack “NO.”

Things escalated and we went to Iowa to counsel with Marvin Smith. Marvin Smith heard about what Jack was doing in our meetings and told me to get out of there ASAP. He told me what Schaap was doing was wrong, he was grooming me. Within one month we sold our house, quit our jobs and moved to Iowa. When *** gave Schaap his resignation, Schaap pulled him into his office and berated, swore and had a tirade in front of *** for an hour. All Ken said was, “Well, thank you.”

When we left, *** was escorted out of his office like a criminal and we understood that we were not welcome back.

A few weeks after we left, rumors began to circulate that I was having an affair with him. Jack Schaap had a staff meeting and from the pieces I have gathered. (He told his staff that if this information got out they could be fired) he vilified, shared personal information about me, discredited me to the staff and asked them to shun me. He also sent a 4 page letter to Marvin Smith doing the same. I asked for the said letter from Marvin Smith recently and he said he threw away the letter because it wasn't "his battle to fight". (This deeply hurt me because he could have confronted Jack and fought for my reputation that Schaap smeared)

When we fled from Jack Schaap, we left behind the only friends we had, a church that was all we knew and jobs that we enjoyed. I received word from several people around the country that I was a "reproach" to them. 
We have spent the last 3 years having to pick up the pieces. I cannot begin to tell you the struggle and the devastation. We gave up everything to get away from his abuse.. 

When this all broke loose I called Terry Duff on Monday night to speak to him. He was in a meeting but said, "He knew all about me". I sent Terry, Eddie Lapina and Rick Sparks the following letter...( It explains what transpired ...)

Dear Mr. Lapina, Mr. Sparks and Mr. Duff, 

On Monday evening I called Terry Duff on his cell phone and at the time he was in a meeting. He told me he would have someone call me back and I asked if he would personally call me back as I trusted him. He had Rick Sparks call me back. I love you Rick Sparks and I believe in you- Ken and I have known you for over 20 years,but that Wednesday conversation was one of the most painful conversations I have ever had. 

You asked how you could help me. I cannot begin to tell you the devastation and pain that Jack Schaap has caused me and my family. We trusted him to counsel us and in return he violated that trust in a most vile way. We had to move 2 states away and start a new life over just to remove ourselves from his harm. We left quietly and ethically but we were still vilified and shunned when we left. For 3 years I have had to build our life back from the ruins. How can you help me and other victims?

1. You can give us the dignity of being heard and believed.

2. You can validate our stories and have empathy for the attack on us when we tried to let those in authority know what was going on.

3. You can treat the victims with dignity instead of a legal liability to your church. ("Julie, Fill out a statement so FBC cannot get sued")

4. You can with humility, true compassion and a repentant heart apologize in lieu of Jack Schaap for the abuse and destruction that you allowed to continue in your church.

5. You can promise to never vilify, shun or not hear someone when they come forward with stories of abuse in leadership.

6. You can encourage your congregation to question authority and not give blind allegiance to any man or institution but lift up allegiance to Christ alone.

Gentleman, I am devastated. I have not eaten or slept since this scandal broke. A deep and painful wound has been ripped open and all I was hoping for was to be heard and validated and instead I was passed off to your delegated person. Please treat us who have been hurt with dignity. I simply needed to be heard and validated by someone who is in a position of leadership. I needed to know you hear my intense grief and that you care for those destroyed by this man. My life will never be the same, I have forgiven Jack Schaap but part of my healing is removing the shame. Please help me to not feel like I am a shame to FBC because I was taken advantage by a predatory man. Please.

In Christ,
***** *****

25 comments:

  1. Rick Sparks from FBC Hammond attacked that lady and intimidated her, she took her post down and is now in hiding.

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  2. It doesn't matter how one dresses. Or if one has cheated in the past. People shouldn't treat otgers like that

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  3. Hey "Anonymous" that is too cowardly to print your name, It doesnt matter how Mrs. Busby was dressed-- though I can assure you she was appropriately attired. JS took advantage of her trust and was inproper in his counseling her. And you are attacking a victim who was only being honest with her account of what occurred. You show total ignorance and lack of grace.

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  4. Anonymous September 24, 2012 12:27 - This lady, whoever she is, was brave enough to share her story online and try to get justice for wrong done against her and others. I would tend to believe her over a pedophile who has been convicted. Pretty sure HE is the one that has obvious issues...not those he abused. And, as for you, you are most likely from Jack Schaap's church continuing to defend the satanic cult that you are in. Maybe you should stop drinking the koolaid and actually act like a Christian.

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  5. From the Editor: When I wrote this post, I did not use the lady's name, even though she made her post public. Later someone left a comment about her being intimidated and that she removed her post. I looked at the Do Right Hyles Anderson Facebook page and did indeed see that she had removed the original post. Also, people were posting there that someone named Rick Sparks had written her about her post exposing Jack Schaap and tried to get her to remove it. One person I recall posting about that was someone named Trisha LaCroix. I believed that to be true because the lady had removed her post.

    Personally, I'm glad she spoke up. I don't know her and am not involved in the situation except for having the misfortune of being sucked into a Hyles-type church for about a year. (Minus the sexual problems. Since people reading this know where I formerly attended church I do want to make that clear, I never knew of any sexual abuse problems there.)

    But personally, it grieves me deeply to see all the cover-up and the freak show mentality coming out of Hyles Anderson College and First Baptist Church Hammond.

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  6. At the request of the victim in this case, I am deleting a comment that identified her. For the sake of continuity, I am posting the comments that were also deleted in this space.

    My complete sympathies lie with the folks who were hurt by FBCH, HAC and Jack Schaap.

    Sincerely, The Editor



    AnonymousSeptember 24, 2012 12:27 AM
    Thats no lady, that's **********. You oughta seen how she dressed for her appointments.

    She'd already cheated on her husband with another man before she went to Schaap.

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    I am His BelovedSeptember 28, 2012 6:14 PM
    Hello Anonymous,
    This is ***************.I have been very open about my struggles and in fact openly discussed it at a _____________ woman's conference in 2003.Both my husband and I had affairs and I filed for divorce. We went to counsel with Jack Schaap to help put our marriage back together. (We are still together and doing great- God has been gracious)
    As for your comment about my dress--I am not sure how wearing a skirt passed my knees, with a shirt that is not tight or immodest and passes a HAC dress check can be construed as reason to be inappropriate with me.
    The fact that you left an anonymous comment like this speaks volumes.
    I also wanted to correct the first Anonymous commenter--Rick Sparks did not intimidate me and I am not in hiding.
    Blessings. *************

    Delete

    *************September 28, 2012 6:18 PM
    Person who wrote this blog and added that post--I would ask that you kindly remove either the entire post or the comments. Thanks for your consideration. *********

    Delete

    Amy ArthurSeptember 28, 2012 8:12 PM
    So Mr. or Mrs. Anonymous, where were you that you saw Julie before each of her appointments? It seems to me that you are excusing the behavior of a pastor based on how the person on the other side of the desk dresses. Is a man of God not held to a high standard of ethics? Is purity and discretion thrown out the window? I happen to know ******** very well, and she is the godliest, most caring and giving authentic Christian woman I have ever met. You know nothing of what you speak! Out of brokenness she reached out for help from her PASTOR! Here you are exposing her shame and excusing the pastor's behavior she sought for guidance and counsel in her broken marriage! What a judgemental hypocrite you are. Your words hold no weight to anyone, for those who know __________, know she stands for victims, she stands for the broken...just like Jesus. You sir, (or ma'am) are standing for the righteous hypocrites who clean the outside of the cup, those whited sepulchers full of dead mens' bones. I pray your eyes will be open to your Pharisaical ways.

    Not ashamed to say who I am either...

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    MonicaSeptember 28, 2012 8:24 PM
    I'm not surprise that you have chosen to remain anonymous. Such ignorance should be hidden.

    Do not bother to answer I will not argue with stupidity!

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    Aunt Tina :)September 28, 2012 8:27 PM
    Obviously "anonymous", you are ashamed of who you are...cowards hide behind that word when they have something to say about someone else. Your pastor chose to do what he did. He is where he is at because he CHOSE to be there...of his OWN FREE WILL. He didn't fall...he WALKED. Instead of being critical of others, why don't you and whoever you work for decide to help those who are victims. None of this happened "overnight"....I am sorry he made the choices he did that affected so many, but they were HIS CHOICES.

    End comments string.
    Because people are still commenting on this and feel very strongly, I will leave the comments open for a while.

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  7. To the lady who wrote the original post about Jack Schaap on Facebook: Please check your email.

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  8. Anonymous, are you SERIOUS?? I am a Baptist and comments like these are what give us a bad name. Now I am NO fan of the Do Right crowd because of how Christians are responding and who they are responding with, but equally disturbing is how some Baptists are responding.
    First, if Schaap thought she wasn't dressed properly, for arguments sake here, if it was that bad he should have sent her home and rescheduled with the explanation that her appearance would not be appropriate in a counseling setting. That was an option instead of engaging in highly inappropriate dialogue.
    Secondly, when Joseph was confronted by Potiphar's wife, and naturally the way the Egyptians dressed she certainly wasn't wearing a long skirt, what did Joseph do? HE FLEED.
    There is nothing wrong with having standards, but when the standards take place of walking by faith they become idolatry. You don't walk in standards to walk in the Spirit, you walk in the Spirit to fulfill the standards and the evidence that Jack Schaap was not walking in the Spirit is on the docket of a district court.
    http://dorightchristians.wordpress.com/2012/09/27/a-word-to-the-churches-about-abuse/

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    1. I totally agree with that. I'm a pretty conservative baptist woman and I believe in modesty as a personal conviction, meaning it's for me, not something I assume YOU should do.

      But for someone to think that this lady deserved to be a victim of the lecherous Jack Schaap because of what she wore for her counseling sessions with him? That's completely crazy.

      One think I have found, the people who defend and worship Hyles (yes they still exist) and defend and worship Jack Schaap are very willing to over look the fact that he has pled guilty to taking a 16 year old girl out of state 3 times to molest her.

      Look, I'm an IFB. But I hate, honestly hate the pastors, youth pastors, school teacher and deacons who do this crap and then all work together to cover it up.

      Hell ain't hot enough for those wicked one.

      Delete
  9. These comments were removed from the thread and edited to delete a name.

    Readers, I know you want to defend this sweet lady and I don't blame you. But please don't use her name.

    I've written to ask her if she'd like this post exposing Jack Schaap removed and I'll abide by what she says, so please don't feel insulted if you come back tomorrow and this post is gone.

    The Editor.


    Colleen MaxeySeptember 28, 2012 8:14 PM
    Hey "Anonymous" that is too cowardly to print your name, It doesnt matter how Mrs. _______ was dressed-- though I can assure you she was appropriately attired. JS took advantage of her trust and was inproper in his counseling her. And you are attacking a victim who was only being honest with her account of what occurred. You show total ignorance and lack of grace.

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    Trisha KeeSeptember 28, 2012 8:41 PM
    Anonymous...your a coward. A filty, bottom feeding coward. _______ has more dignity, grace and pose than most women I know. You are an absolutely disgusting human being. And ______ is not in hiding...she is standing tall. And she does not own the label that you or Jack Schaap want to give her.

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  10. I posted it in AUGUST right after it was made public. It was sent to me with her name, but I deleted her name before I posted it. I felt like it was important to get the information out there about Jack Schaap.

    I still think it's important. And I highly doubt that she and the 16 year old girl are Schaap's only victims.

    That having been said, if she'd like it completely removed I'll be happy to do so and have conveyed that to her.

    And really, is there any need for name-calling?

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  11. I am a pastor of a IFB church and it is no surprise to me that there are victims out there of Jack Schaap. History proves that men with lots of power and lots of followers can become womanizers. It is not this specific denomination that is the problem it is the circumstance of the pastors personal life that plays out in his ministry. To this lady I believe her story and will pray for the restiraion of her marriage and to find a good bible believing church. I caught on to Schaap in 2011 at a Pastor School meeting. He said and did things that I felt were signs of a falling and failing Pastor. Well he fell and fell hard and destroyed a seventeen old girls life, he is a child molester in my view and in the view of the law. He will answer before God for his sin and he will have lots of time to think of the hurt he has caused as he hopefully does more than ten yrs for his crime. I believe the people of his church made the mistake of putting him on a pedistal and not questioning his charachter. I tell my people quite often not to believe it just because I say it but to judge what I say verse the bible and let the scriptures guide their trust in me. I am in prayer for all the victims of Jack Schaap and for FBC as they search for a new Pastor.

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  12. I attended Hammond Baptist schools and was a part of this "culture" for much of my young adulthood. There was so much emphasis on the exterior: how you dress and act. Legalism strips people of the responsibility of caring for the interior: your heart. It has taken me decades to process the spiritual abuse suffered in this place. Thank God for his grace and the freedom He gives. This couple needs to stay away from these toxic people.

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  13. I hope that this Christian Lady and Her Husband can heal. I hope that they are able to help others who have suffered. God Bless You.

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  14. I really don't want to get involved in this mess but I left HAC and FBCHammond just prior to Dr Hyles death. I told people what I thought was going on behind the scenes and I saw stuff I have never told anyone but I ran and got as far away from this as possible. I have been shunned by those who are leaders there. I was a Pastor in an Independent Baptist Church for over 16 years and then left and I now Pastoring a Baptist Church not Independent Baptist in another state. I am ashamed I went to HAC and don't tell anyone. I knew Jack Schaap, Dr. Hyles, Dr. Evans, Dr. Young, Dr. Moore, Dr. Owens and many more. I had several of these at my church. I cannot have anything to do with them now but I know things that went on and the roots are very deep.

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  15. Trisha Kee, Trisha LaCroix, Patrica Miller, Whatever you want to call her is losing it.

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  16. The using of the word Christian in the same sentence as this man is a shame.... Like a lot of people are saying... them saying it only happen for 4 weeks is not bad they have a lot of problems. Why does the marriage come up? Not the marriage probably the person he is married to. Someone that looks have prettier then his wife don't know. But 1min or 1 day 4 weeks is to much and should carry a sentence of 50yrs or even 55yrs to make it even to his age.

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  17. the why did you keep "counseling with him" some part of you liked it

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  18. I am not saying it was right if he was grooming you. I am speaking from my own personal experience. My high school principal groomed me and eventually I liked it and kept going back. Did he take advantage initially of a clean innocent 17 year old girl? totally - but I never said no either so somewhere along the way I just chose to keep seeing him as Julie did here or else she never would have kept seeing him. Part of her wanted this. I know I have been there and I know what these men do and how it feels.

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  19. And the title is so ridiculous - Where is David Gibbs? hiding behind all the money he gets to protect the perpetrators of fundamentalism! duh

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  20. I am SO glad to be out of churches. Period.

    It was like going from one abusive relationship to another.

    Whether fundamentalist or ecumenical.

    Men are the main trouble in churches; their sex drives and egos.

    They can blame Eve all they want, but Jesus (I thought!) preached personal responsibility.

    --Cindy

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  21. jack schaap is my hero

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    1. Jack Scaap is a pervert...just like the prior Jack. Power can be a destructive thing. Thank God Cindy got some sense. You, however are brainwashed.

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  22. Abstain from all appearance of evil.

    Why did God tell us this? One reason was and is to avoid appearances as well as the temptation itself which people already have enough of, thank you.

    Regarding sexual sin, it begins in the mind. What kind of god would "it" be that is OK with fantasizing, entertaining inappropriate actions, or placing another woman's (or man's) face on our spouse? That kind of god is not one I would worship. So where did that god come from. We made it up. I worship the God with rules and standards against all of that.

    Do not think that I am blind to how careless women dress today in the Western world. I look ridiculous as I cover my face or maybe just an eye when I cannot simply avoid or turn away from a female (no ladies dress this way) who thinks "got it-flaunt it" applies to any girl that wants to claim it. I care none at all for how I look, though, when I protect my eyes, and hence my mind, from temptation. If you think this is silly behavior for a married Bible-believer, then I suggest you take time off and read the Book to see why I do it.

    Satan knows mankind. He's been watching for at least 6000 years. His skills of observation far surpass any mankind can offer even in his most proud moment. There is no Scriptural justification for playing with sin at any level of mental or physical participation or allowance. None. Why do we think we are stronger than another man, in that we wouldn't get caught in that situation, or that we wouldn't make that same choice, or that we would not put ourselves in the same spot Jack was, when he started down the road of entertaining sin with that young woman? We lie to ourselves when we dismiss such potential sin, because we think we can handle it.

    We cannot.

    But mankind take greater pleasure in talking about such sin instead of what the Bible says to avoid it altogether. Looks at this thread. We should be ashamed that the focus herein is on the sin and not the sinner. I do not know Jack or anyone connected with either Jack. I do not need to be, in order to correct the wrong focus of discussion I see all over the Internet about Jack Schaap. What have you people done to support his wife or children in the wake of this event? Even a letter to her? No?

    People tell me that I should not care about the man, his wife, their Church or what happens everyday in businesses across the country, namely the sexual sin of those in authority. God cares. And if I must be glad Jack is in prison, it is not to see some guy humiliated because he was a Pastor, but rather to see God's Word proven true, yet again. How's that? God does not chasten those who are not His children. Lost people can do what they want, and may never be judged until their day before the Throne. But God's children don't get away with much without Him removing their blessing and finally using the hand of man to bring them down. Jack is sleeping on the government's bed for a decade because God corrected him harshly, not because someone found incriminating photos on his cel phone. I am glad he is in prison because it is evidence that Jack is truly saved. And that means God still has a purpose in Jack's life, now and after he gets back home.

    The lost and reprobate won't get that. Or at best, they will throw some "religious" rocks at it and claim it is just another fundie yacking. Note, however, they cannot use the Bible to refute it.

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  23. When ALL things have been restored, then Yahshua WILL return!
    Acts 3:21.
    Yahshua and His Father, YHVH, are restoring all to a "pure lip."
    We are all going through tremendous upheaval and change and downright
    transformation in to the sons and daughters of Yah for whom He died!
    I will only trust One Who has died for my sins ~ non other.
    Meaning, I do not even trust my self, for I would never give my life for my
    own sins, let alone those of my spouse or my child or any other person.
    Trust the One Who died for you, today.
    Do NOT become disillusioned in this transformation and redemption
    and Restoration of all things process.

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